Episode 301 General Discussion ***SPOILERS***

[jo]

***WARNING: This post and discussion may contain spoilers for anyone who is not current with the Starz series Outlander (including seasons 1 and 2) or who has not read the first three books in the series.***

Please review the new policy re: spoilers here, if you've not already seen the post.

Episode 301 (September 10, 2017) – “The Battle Joined,” written by Ronald D. Moore, directed by Brendan Maher

Synopsis: After living through the Battle of Culloden, Jamie finds himself at the mercy of unforgiving British victors, until a connection from his past provides his only hope of survival. Meanwhile, a pregnant Claire attempts to adjust to life in the modern world of 1940s Boston – and life with Frank.

Have at it, people! Did you like the episode? Thoughts, impressions, quibbles, highlights and lowlights?
 

Comments

[suzy]

I didn't expect to have seen it already but I did and I loved it. But my heart broke.

I will see it again tonight so I'll be back. :)

[jo]

I re-watched it last night -- am still gathering my thoughts!

[jo]

The title of the episode -- The Battle Joined -- to me it refers to Jamie and Claire's individual battles to remake their lives without each other. And in Jamie's case, simply finding the will to continue living.

The acting in this episode was stellar from all three of our principal leads. Sam as Jamie didn't have much to say in terms of actual dialogue, but he certainly managed to say a lot through his facial expressions. Meanwhile, Caitriona and Tobias do such a marvellous dance as Claire and Frank. I know there are so many Frank haters out there, and I see on Twitter how much abuse the producers get for making Frank's role more prominent than it is in the books, but I don't care -- I love it.

To me, the main thing the show does so much better than the books, the one area where the adaptation soars above the source material is exploring Claire's life. When I first read the books, namely Outlander, but the subsequent ones as well, it puzzled me that Claire, whom I thought to be the main character, or at least, one of the main characters, was so one-dimensional and under-developed. We learned so many things about other characters' backgrounds and such -- especially Jamie -- but Claire's past is largely glossed over, or ignored completely. Am I the only one who would love to hear her recount tales of some of her adventures with Uncle Lamb? So I loved that last season explored her experiences in World War II, and that this season, they're obviously fleshing out exactly what she went through during those 20 years away from Jamie.

Of course, I know now why Claire in the books is the way she is -- the story isn't her story, it's not even Jamie and Claire's story, it's just Jamie's story. Diana Gabaldon explained that at some book event she was at last year. It's Jamie's story as told by Claire -- so Claire doesn't need to be fully fleshed out -- she's just a tool to tell Jamie's story. So I love that the show isn't that.

Did anyone else find Jamie and Black Jack's final battle tinged with... I won't say eroticism exactly, but some kind of warped love (mostly on BJR's part). Right up to the very end, when Jack collapses into Jamie's arms and they fall to the ground together. Also made me wonder if that was really Tobias lying on top of Sam during the scenes where Jamie was drifting in and out of consciousness on the battlefield.

I found myself getting EXTREMELY riled up when that snooty professor was being so condescending and patronising to Claire, and again the doctor at the hospital. I'm old enough to have encountered attitudes similar to those -- not quite as bad, but ooh... those scenes touched a nerve or two!

I thought the actor who played Hal (Lord Melton) was very good. Hope we get enough seasons to see him come back!

I can't think of anything negative about this episode... except, the ending was so abrupt. But that was obviously deliberate. We see Claire and Frank so happy (for once), finally looking as if they can actually make things work between them, and then BANG! A reminder of Jamie is thrown between them. Ouch. Made me think of the lyrics of the Talking Heads song, Once in a Lifetime...

[suzy]

Yes, the acting of all three were just so great. But Jamies pain got to me the most. I just feel so much when it comes to Jamie!

No, I want to know about Claires experiences too. And I think it would be a very flat show/story if we don't get to see her and Frank together. We NEED to see her cope with those 20 years as much as we need to see Jamies. Otherwise we won't fully know them when they reunite.

And I've read how people complain about Frank. Again, I haven't read Voyager but to me it seems making Frank more prominent and likable is all for the better. They did try to mend together some kind of marriage but obviously it's doomed to fail but not because Frank is a bad person. Instead we simply see how strong Claires love for Jamie truly is and no matter how much she wish she could go back to love Frank again she just can't. This makes her story line more complex and richer IMO.

Yes! Ever since I first realised BJR's obsession of Jamie I always thought that... well, I also saw some kind of warped love? I'm not sure how to describe it. But I felt there was more than just his sadistic pleasure of breaking someone down, woman or man. Jamie fascinated him for sure. And that last look he gives Jamie when he fall into that embrace? Yeah, I saw love.

I saw an interview with Sam and he said that Tobias was on top of him for some of it but then there were stuntmen or extras for the rest.

My only negative thought was that everything was too short! *lol* I'm just greedy.

[jo]

Since you haven't read the book, I don't know how comfortable you are with me explaining some of the book!Frank stuff that gets people upset? They may deal with some (or all of it on the show, I don't know, so we can wait to see how future episodes progress.

And yes, I saw that same interview where Sam explains that it was Tobias lying on him at least some of the time! That must have been rather uncomfortable for both of them!

[suzy]

I had expected the battle to last like half the episode. But I love how they let us see it through Jamie's memories of it while he lies there dying. It's confusing and disjointed with glimpses here and there, when he's standing at the stones reeling with the goodbye and then of course the fight with Black Jack. Again, I thought it was going to be... more/longer? I don't know, but I feel it was over so quickly. Too quickly? Probably not. But OMG it actually ended with an embrace. So many feelings. I've been convinced BJ loved Jamie in his own twisted way and this end didn't change my view at all.

Rupert. Gosh. His and the other guys (forgot his name) farewell to Jamie. So sad and yet they were so strong and brave. The two lads Rupert tried to save. Urgh, couldn't they have showed some mercy on them?! Poor Jamie wanted nothing but death and yet he gets to be saved (THANK GOD!) out of honor and debt. Is he the luckiest or unluckiest man ever or what? Aw, poor Jamie indeed.

Where is Murtagh?!!!

Were men really that horrible in the 40's? Wow. Condescending asses. Not to mention that doctor!!!

I don't know your stand/take on Frank. Some truly hate him (some love him more than Jamie??!) and I know some book fans hate the way the show is portraying him because he doesn't seem as bad but I don't know book Frank so I really am sorry for his situation too. I think he is selfish in many ways but I don't doubt his love for Claire. But I find him dull and boring. Well, of course he would be compared to Jamie. It's not really fair of me.

I think Claire really thought she could find the love she once had for him again. So she agreed to this bargain of forgetting her past. Oh Claire. It's so doomed to fail. There's so much tension between them and yet they are both putting up this front of a happy family. Until it shatters and we realise they have not shared a bed yet. At least that's what I thought. Am I wrong? Resentment is brewing.

Where's my baby? That got to me so much. The utter panic until Frank walks in with the baby. Man. I believed they actually had a chance there, talking with baby Bree in her arms. Until the nurse asks about the red hair. Nope, it's so doomed.

These are just some thoughts I came to think about now. I simply loved the episode and I loved they took their time with both storylines. I am not sure how long I can take their separation though.

[jo]

I don't know if you are on Twitter, but the Outlander Writers have a Twitter account, and they were answering some questions about the first episode. The actual Battle of Culloden lasted about an hour, and the bits that we do see are mostly just Jamie's (often fever-induced) flashes of memory. There is something I could further add, but it's book-related, so I'm not sure if you want me to explain more?

Same with Murtagh -- not sure how much potential spoilerage you want... You could check out this tweet from Caitriona: https://twitter.com/caitrionambalfe/status/907038872026132480...

I never hated Frank in the book -- I don't see how anyone can hate someone put in such an impossible situation. However, the reality is that we don't get much Frank in the book, and when we do, it's not from his POV, it's Claire's memories -- and let's face it, she isn't the most reliable narrator in those instances because she's in love with Jamie, not happy in her situation, and so likely looking for as many faults as she can find. She's bound to focus on the most negative things, and even twist them to make them worse because of that.

Yeah, the "where is my baby" --- that was so sad.

I don't know if you caught it -- I sort of missed it the first time I watched, but saw it the second time, when Jamie is finally lifted off the battlefield by Rupert and others, he drops the piece of amber that Claire had given him before she went back through the stones. So all the time he was lying there with Jack on top of him, he was clutching his one remaining connection to Claire.

You're going to have to deal with their separation until episode 306!

[suzy]

I don't like twitter. I check from time to time but I'm not following any Outlander related on there.

I really liked how they showed the battle from Jamies fever dreams.

Oh, depends on what you mean. Battle spoilers? I'm ok with knowing what happens differently in the books in general. I just prefere to see it aired first then I'm ok with knowing what's right (or wrong) with the episode compared with the book.

But I'm torn about the book spoilers in advance of an episode. I already know a great deal because most people do compare so it's very hard to avoid. But if I can I do try to avoid knowing every single plot point coming up. But of course I don't know if I already know everything or not. I feel I know most things. :o

But since Frank is already changed so much I don't see how that is spoilerish. Feel free to explain book Frank.

it's Claire's memories -- and let's face it, she isn't the most reliable narrator

Exactly! We can now base our own opinion on Frank without her thoughts. I don't see how that is a bad thing. I can understand and feel for Claire no matter how "good" they portray Frank. It just makes it more tragic for both of them.

Mmm yes. I know what happened to Murtagh in the book. See? I already know too much but it doesn't mean it has to happen in the show. I am hoping anyway.

Oh yes, the amber! I saw it. It made me so so sad. :(

306 is so far away! I read something about a 2 week airing gap around that time as well? After I assume.

[jo]

So in Voyager, we don't get any battle at all. The book opens with Jamie coming to on the battlefield, with Jack's body on top of him. He has a few vague flashback memories, but on the whole, there's no real discussion of the battle at all.

In fact, in the series, Jamie doesn't remember at all if he's the one who killed Jack or not -- he has no memories of that until finally late in the series -- I forget if it's book 7 maybe? he finally does remember the battle, not just with Jack, but in more general detail.